Episode 2
Content and Founder Authenticity with Steve Carran
So talk to me a little bit more about the, I want to hear about the podcast and I want to hear about the, the growth that you've seen. and, and so the number two, don't, I don't want to keep harping on that. Right. Number one's in sight for next year. We'll speak that into existence. Um, how, how are you, what's like, What are the metrics and the success around it? What's the growth been like? You know, how do you.
Steve Carran (01:04)
Yeah that's right, that's right.
Doug Logan (01:18)
Measure the success of a podcast.
Steve Carran (01:19)
Yeah. So one thing, what some of the metrics that we look at are kind of views that we get on YouTube and we're on any podcast channel. So looking at downloads and views on YouTube, one thing that we have seen is YouTube is just taking off. They've invested a lot of money into the podcast side of YouTube. And it's kind of funny. When we started this podcast, one of the first things that our producer asked was like, do you want to do video? And when we started this podcast, there was no way I thought this was going to be my full-time job four years down the road, right? so I'm like, well, what, don't know. What do you think? Should we do video? And he's like, absolutely. Like if you want to grow scale, do video. So thank goodness for John Boomhofer for giving us that advice, because I don't think we'd be where we are if we didn't do video. And we've kind of, we've had our YouTube channel, but in the past year, we've really, really decided to focus on that area. John comes out with YouTube shorts on a daily basis. So the goal is to get, you know, 10, 20,000 views on that one YouTube short, which will then drive traffic to the episode itself, increasing viewership there. So we have a heavy focus on video content and YouTube. And it's been great since YouTube has really invested in podcasts. We have seen over the last three months, this year three, four months, our YouTube has just been really gaining a lot of traction and gaining more followers on a daily basis. So things that we look at is viewership, engagement on LinkedIn. A lot of hospitality folks are on LinkedIn. So that's one of our main platforms. So just looking at who's engaging and how long and how often people are looking at our content. Is where everybody in hospitality is. It's, you know, it's, and that's not all industries. It's, funny. I talked to my friends and other people who are in other industries and they're like, I never go on LinkedIn. It is my least visited media site. And like, for me, I'm like, everybody I work with is on LinkedIn. So I am on LinkedIn all the time. It's a great place to put content though and, and engage.
Doug Logan (03:23)
Think for that reason though, what's really great about it is that because it's not Instagram, it's not YouTube, it is really focused into business. And so it's interesting when you're scrolling your feed and every once in a while somebody posts something that's not business related. I'm glad that your kid just won the spelling bee, but. I'm not going to follow you anymore. Not what I came here for.
Steve Carran (03:48)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. Do you see it moving towards that a little bit more personalization? One thing I see a ton of on LinkedIn is selfies. It is either you're taking a picture of yourself or you're walking and you're videoing yourself as you're walking. Are you seeing kind of that almost similar things as well?
Doug Logan (04:07)
Yeah, I am seeing that to some degree. Um, part of me wonders. So I have a friend who's who, um, who kind of got me into creating weekly clips and he has been recently, um, I don't know where he's at in this. He's probably halfway through doing a, he called it like a 90 day challenge. There was some, some term for it where he's posting content every day.
Steve Carran (04:29)
Nice? Sure.
Doug Logan (04:33)
For 90 days. And a lot of it is selfies, some of it's video, some of it's just resharing something. And it's really interesting because he told me like two weeks ago that he had just started doing this and I was like, I gotta be honest, man, I haven't seen a single post from you in weeks. And part of me wonders is like the algorithm looking at it and like saying like, you know. You're just posting selfies or you're, you know, all of a sudden ramping up and posting too much content that's maybe not as engaging or, or what? And, it just kind of dropped off. and I, it's interesting, right?
Steve Carran (05:06)
I still think there is some confusion as to what creates this really engaging content on LinkedIn. I read a few articles and it was like hashtags don't matter. Nobody follows hashtags anymore. And then later in the article, one of the tips that they had was use relevant hashtags in your industry. So I'm just like, there's a kind of a few things that are a little different. One thing I do know is they're focusing a lot on video content and also like when you're engaging with others, So. That's, that's kind of LinkedIn. I'm still, we're still toying around with kind of all these kind of different ideas now, and we're doing it on our page as well. Really seeing if we post with this text or this text, what's going to get better engagement and what's going to get in front of people. So I think we're all still trying to figure it out, except for the people at LinkedIn who are changing the algorithm.
Doug Logan (05:55)
I mean, think, I mean, anytime the algorithm changes, whether that's LinkedIn, Google, Meta, whatever, you know, I'm a marketer, right? And I just got off a call talking about analytics and how we should measure something and, you know, what CTAs and all of that to use. The reality of it is though, that even though LinkedIn, as an example, is a smaller network compared to YouTube or any of the other platforms, it is a more focused network. And I think for, for me, you know, as a owner, founder of a small agency where we just really need like two new brands a year to work with. And we're happy when you think about it from that perspective. I, know, at the end of the day, like, who cares if I get 10 likes on this or whatnot? Maybe one of those likes is going to lead to, you know, a new client.
Steve Carran (06:36)
Mm-hmm.
Doug Logan (06:49)
Or some new relationship that we didn't have before. And so it's very easy as marketers, and I do this, to get into it and be like, where can we be the most effective? Where can we reach the most people? But the reality is, it's like, how many people do you really need to buy your product, to listen to your podcast, to be successful? It's not the whole world, right? You just need the right people. And that market, that pool might be smaller than you think.
Steve Carran (07:13)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I guess what kind of content are you putting out that you're seeing is engaging with the right kind of people?
Doug Logan (07:23)
I mean, the content, the clips that like that we've been promoting, These clips are, you know, two to three, maybe six minutes long tops. And I've been talking about everything from, you know, leadership to, to sales, to marketing, to hotels, to whatever. And so again, I look at that and I'd be like, you know, well. Was it, you know, was it, this clip perform better than this clip because of the guests, because of the time that I posted it, the, the subject, there's so many different variables. The end of the day, it's like, you know, I was getting no views or any engagement on LinkedIn prior to this. And so when you look at like my chart, it's like, and then it's spike and then spike and then spike. And it's like, that's great. You know? And with anything new, right? You have to in marketing and in branding, you've got to give it six months, 12 months time to see the impact of it. You just can't expect like, Oh, you know, I've been doing this for a couple of weeks now and I haven't gotten a lead yet. It's like, you know, it doesn't work like that. That's just not how, you know, business works. And, uh, especially for us where it's like, we value long-term relationships. Right? Like we value, We've got clients that are, we've been working with for over 15 years, you know? And, and it's like, you don't just create that out of nowhere, right? That takes time to nurture.
Steve Carran (08:46)
No. And that's one thing you know, that first year is tough. You're getting maybe five, 10 likes on stuff, if that some posts, you know, it's just you liking it, you know, so it's, it's, it's all about consistency. And that's, you know, we've been doing this podcast for four years now. And the first two years, I think we were posting five times a week. Now we post every day. So it's been, and that's one thing I think people are like, you guys get, you know, good engagement on your podcast. And I'm like, well, that's cause we've been posting every day for four years. Like that's that's kind of the part you don't see is what we've been doing and putting into this and being consistent for four years. I had a talk with, ⁓ Glenn Houseman, No Vacancy. I mean, the pioneer of podcasting and hospitality, right? He's kind of the Godfather there. and I talked to him and I'm like, what's, what's kind of the most difficult thing for you. And he's like, it's, the consistency of just posting on social media every day and sometimes multiple times a day. But that's kind of the nature of the beast, especially if you have a podcast, you have to stay in front of your audience and you have to constantly pretty be producing new content, different types of content and having engaging people on. So it's all about consistency and in five years, I'm sure you'll be getting like 50 to a hundred likes per post.
Doug Logan (10:00)
I don't like my own posts. You said that.
Steve Carran (10:02)
I don't either. I don't either. I don't either. I like refuse to do it. And somebody criticized me for liking my own posts. Like it's my own post. Why would I not like it? And I'm like, I understand your perspective. I'm not going to knock you for liking your own post, but I'm one of those people. I'm like, you'll never see me like my own posts or anything like that. Even my comments. Like if I comment on a Modern Hotelier, post, I will not like my own comment.
Doug Logan (10:27)
It's just kind of like a little weird vacuum tunnel, right? Like it's just like why, you know, and I mean, thank God like my mom's not on LinkedIn cause she'd probably like all of my content too, The moment I get like, yeah, great. I love you. So proud.
Steve Carran (10:30)
It is. Yeah. Like it, comment. Great job, honey. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that would that would be kind of funny though if if having your mom comment on literally every one of your posts, but be great. Yeah, for real. Like. Yep, that's that's that's the thing. And like our podcast number two in the world, but number one in my mom's heart.
Doug Logan (10:48)
Yeah. My mom's my biggest fan, right? mean, I'm number one there, right? Exactly.
Steve Carran (11:04)
That's too funny. That's too funny.
Doug Logan (11:06)
So you're the founder, right? I mean, like you're one of the founders if, if not the, okay.
Steve Carran (11:09)
Yes. Yeah. So David, John and I, we all kind of are in it together. We're all owners of the Modern Hotelier.
Doug Logan (11:18)
Yeah. And, and so as a founder myself, right. And I started Inovāt way back in 2002. There's a lot of, you know, interesting sort of challenges. I think when, when you start something new, you start it for probably one thing that you're really passionate about. In my case, it was like marketing and strategy...
Steve Carran (11:35)
Mm-hmm.
Doug Logan (11:39)
and branding and all of those things. So that's more than one thing, I guess. But I was really passionate about that and I still am. And then as a founder though, then you realize like, ⁓ I've got to wear all these other hats too, right? Like I have to hire people or I got to fire people. ⁓ I need clients to pay me. Right? So as a founder yourself, I'd love to hear your founder story and...
Steve Carran (11:50)
Yes. Yeah. Right?
Doug Logan (12:05)
the challenge that you've had with hats and what hat do you like best and have you been able to give up any other hats in this process?
Steve Carran (12:12)
So, yeah, it's, it's funny. Like, I feel like my story, like kind of the Modern Hotelier story is a little different because I, never did podcasting before I started this. was, it wasn't a passion of mine before I started. I kind of realized it was a passion as I started doing it. ⁓ And it wasn't like, you know, and you started your company, your full time, you're like ready to go. Like the Modern Hotelier, I feel like we started and it was just kind of a passion project once we realized we both enjoyed doing it. And I don't think we ever thought that we were going to be full time podcasters. So, now like that's that's kind of the interesting thing is I really wasn't passionate about podcasting until I actually did it. But once I did the first, I think five episodes, I was like, this is awesome. Like this is something I look forward to every day and I thoroughly enjoy it. So, so that was, I think I found my passion after I started it. and then, But the thing was like, I always had another job, so it wasn't fully relying on the podcast to create revenue. Last April is when I came in to the podcast full time and that was kind of. That was kind of a reality check where it's like, okay, here we go. Wake up. You, you have to self motivate. That's absolutely for sure. But I think when you have one of those months where you're like, we only got one advertiser in and, I'm not going to get a paycheck this month. You know, that's when it really sets in and it's like, this is your job. This is your career. And like, you know, I have a wife, I have bills, I have all that stuff. So it's like, it's kind of that reality check where you have to wake up every day and you're like, Let's go. This is kind of your career. Now we got to get serious about it. So that was kind of, guess, my, my wake up call almost. And since then, I feel like, we almost were, I feel like we're in a series A startup right now. We've been doing this for four years. We've landed. Now we're going to expand, grow our audience, grow our offerings and things like that. So that's kind of where we've launched the media company. So now we're doing more video content with that. But it's definitely a challenge. ⁓ you know, that the hospitality industry is such a great industry though. It has so many incredible people in it and they love podcasts and there are so many awesome people that we can have on that are not only entertaining, but really, really smart and really, really good at what they do. So there's no lack of talent for finding people to join us on the podcast. Probably the biggest challenge is just finding people who are looking to pay. So that's kind of the challenge.
Doug Logan (14:36)
Hmm.
Steve Carran (14:44)
So I don't know if that answered your question completely.
Doug Logan (14:44)
Yeah. No, absolutely. mean, there's definitely, and I'm, you know, in 20 plus years and doing this, there's peaks and valleys in the business for sure. Right. So for us, it's, you know, it's, it's crazy. It's like, I can, I'm either stressing about there not being enough work. Or I quickly might get like a little bit of a respite of like a week. And then all of a sudden I'm like, now we have too much work, right? Where's the happy balance? And, and it's like, but I've been doing this for two decades, over two decades. And it's like, I continue to do this and I continue to do it because I love it. And I love the people that work alongside of me, whether in the office, remote...
Steve Carran (15:13)
Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Right?
Doug Logan (15:33)
or across the table from me as in like a client, right? Because that's to me, that's what matters. And as a founder and being an agency for founder led brands, know, part of that really comes down to me just solidifying the fact that like, I do this because I love this and I want to work closely with those brands. And, and that's the, that's, that's it. I love the work and, and, and I love helping these brands grow, I help them overcome their challenges, all of that. That's a shared success for me. Those awards back there, those are over 10 years old. We gave up on them a long time ago. Because they were really, we got a whole bunch of them in one year and we're like, wow, this is cool. And it's like, that's not why we do this.
Steve Carran (16:02)
Absolutely.
Doug Logan (16:16)
And for some people, you know, and that might be the case. And for you, right? Like it's cool getting to number two, but I guarantee you, once you get to number one, then what? Right?
Steve Carran (16:25)
Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's why you don't really put a, put that why the why, right? Like every day we wake up as founders, somebody who started our company and we have a why, why we're doing this and the why isn't awards. It's not recognition. It's, it's not being able to come on cool. Although this is a very cool perk of coming on a podcast with you, but it's really because you love what you do. You love the people you work with. You love helping people. I guess I'll ask you, what is your why? Why, what about being a founder keeps you going every day?
Doug Logan (17:01)
I think, I that's, I have worked on this why statement, you know, and gone through all the Simon Sinek stuff, but at the end of the day, ultimately for me, I think what drives me is the problem solving aspect of it, right? It's part of the reason why we don't even, why I'm opposed to like focusing in on just one industry even, because, you know, while that's great and you can call yourself an expert by being the agency for hotels and resorts, to me that feels limiting in some regards because I'm afraid of getting into like the routine of just doing the same thing over and over again, right? It'll be boring to me. The results will start to look the same. Whereas we can take things that we've done for other brands, you know...
Steve Carran (17:42)
Mm-hmm.
Doug Logan (17:46)
and in totally different industries and apply them to this hotel, this resort, right? And that's absolutely true. I mean, when we started, we started with the goal of working with some really big brands. And one of the last really big brands we worked with was Ferrari. And it was great. But again, at the end of the day, they were huge. They were Ferrari before us. They were Ferrari after us.
Steve Carran (18:00)
Yeah, I remember talking about this.
Doug Logan (18:10)
We were a small agency. They found us because we owned the fact, right? And we trademarked the fact that we are a small and mighty digital agency. And that's what they loved about it.
Steve Carran (18:21)
So very cool. I love that. And I think, you know, being a small business yourself, right? Like we all started somewhere and, know, dedicating yourself to help fellow small business ownerships because, know, nobody knows what they're going through better than you. Somebody who also is a founder of a small business themselves. So just having been being able to relate to that person and kind of walking in their shoes and I'm sure that's very important as a marketer to understand what their objectives are and kind of what where they are as a company.
Doug Logan (18:49)
Yeah. Like We, started with one thing in mind and then realized we had 20 other things we had to do along the way. Right. Not, not because we wanted to, but because somebody has to do it. Right. And that someone, is you. Until you can hire somebody to do that job. Right. Thankfully, I don't have to clean the toilets anymore.
Steve Carran (18:50)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. That's great. That's great. I still do. I work from home, so I got to clean the toilet sometimes. No, I know, but I work from home. I don't have an office.
Doug Logan (19:15)
Yeah. I'm not talking about at home. Not at home. In the office. Don't, don't tell my wife. I'm, I'm, I'm, will, I will, I'll get to it, ⁓ well, we'll, we'll cut this part out.
Steve Carran (19:24)
You'll get to it. You'll get to it. You heard it here. Now you're on record for that.
Doug Logan (19:31)
Thanks for listening to Not Quite a Podcast. To hear new episodes, view the archive or find out more about being a guest on the show.
