Episode 15
Story, Brand & Identity with Kaleigh Wiese
I just did learn something really interesting about you that I didn't know we had in common when we were chatting before this. You were homeschooled at one point, right?
Kaleigh Wiese (00:48)
What?
Doug Logan (00:49)
And then you went to school for design and you had your first business or idea for a business when you're 15 is that right?
Kaleigh Wiese (00:59)
Well, yeah, so I actually, in third grade, I was in private school and I went to the library and I got a book that was like kids in their own business. And I was like, this is what I'm doing. And I'm moving to New York, like very confidently. I'm the oldest of six and I'm very proud. My mom essentially was like, okay, if this is what you want to do, then I will take you out of school and homeschool you and work on your skill set. And when I was 15, several things were happening. One, I was like, if I only need these credits to graduate high school, like I can do this on my own. I was essentially taking college classes and in the screamo band when I was 15 years old, getting all my basics. And I think from the very beginning, I knew I wanted to figure out how to do like creative and business. Like to me, I'm like, how are these creative people in the world not making money? Was just like beyond me because I was like, it's just math people, like, you know, which is not really the case. It is rare to find someone who has both the sensibility of design and also, you know, can know what a PNL is.
So I went to school and talked to the counselor, they were like, I think you actually want to get into visual communications because what you're trying to do is solve problems through design, which was very true. So I have a visual communications degree and a business degree and have totally nerded out through all the years around font and typography and colors and the psychology of design, which I think has led to lots of different ways that that is expressed. If it is through brand development. and voice or if it is, you know, developing a building or a hotel or whatever it might be. It's like, how do we want people to feel? Now let's actually just use the psychology that exists to all Fortune 500 companies as well as small business and craft that story so that they can have better resonance with the people who they want in their structures or building or office or purchasing their products.
Doug Logan (02:54)
We're both kind of in branding, we're both in marketing. You seem to kind of then weave into like the P&L side of it and go deeper, which I love, because that's kind what we do, but look at, a lot of agencies will stop at the point where they'll like hand over a lead or hand over a customer or a guest or whatever. And then they're like, all right, hey, that's on you as the brand to figure out how to nurture that relationship. And for us, we're like that, you know, you're going to judge us by the entirety of that customer.
So if we can help qualify and nurture and create even more customers out of the leads and the traffic that we're driving you, then far better. So we get deep into the weeds with clients, into their systems, their processes. How are you talking with these people? Are they going on a tour? What are they doing? What's the different, you know, touch points that happen after they fill out a form or give you a call or anything like that. But you're balancing it a lot with the P &L and the business side of it, which is interesting.
Kaleigh Wiese (03:51)
Yeah, so I would actually say I'm kind of really extreme on the front end of brand, like brand story, like how, what is the differentiating factors that's actually going to get you the business that you want. So if it's naming, colors, visual identity, voice, that's where I think our strength is. And then on the flip side of that, how do you implement that in real time on the ground, in the guest's journey or customer journey? What is the custom OS and E and like little details that really matter. What is the pin that's on the uniform, right? So it's actually understanding the far extremes of the pre-concept phase and then the full development phase. And I think that in terms of marketing, I can speak the language. I understand, but it is not a passion of mine to like address the funnel. I was on a call just a little bit ago with a marketing agency we work with. And I'm like, are we getting closer to better understanding who the ideal client is? Right? Like that's the sweet spot because then that's going to help dictate what we can do better on the front end and the back end in terms of what that looks like from a form and function perspective.
Essentially like, okay, you have this great idea and they're either starting that idea or it's like full bar rescue, which I feel like we have to do sometimes now where they're in business, they're not making any money, they're exhausted, they're not sleeping, their website sucks, they can't communicate about their brand and it's like, oh, okay, let's just start with an audit, let's assess what's working and not working for you and then let's build a story that's really gonna resonate. And so I find myself in the weeds of the P &L, not because I love it, because to be honest. But I think it's really important what a healthy business does to the mindset of the teams that are working behind the scenes. And I think that even more recently in the last few years, we've really realized above even your P &L your company culture actually matters. Like can you or articulate what value you're providing because I think that we have a chronic problem within hospitality of turnover. Wait staff, they have no intentions of staying. Your director of sales, no intention of staying. And so it's like, how do we create more resilient teams and have them buy into the brand and the story and they can't buy into anything if there's nothing there and they don't understand how we talk, how we walk, how we want people to feel.
Doug Logan (06:08)
You talked about the opposite end of the spectrum, because when you're talking about branding and it's so far away and then have the P&L so close to the business. How do you address that? How do you, correlate the two or are you typically coming in on one side of it and then the other side of it? I mean, I know that it matters. You know that it matters, but I don't know that every client understands the value that goes into, you know, really defining and owning a brand, right? As much as you can. I look at it and I'm looking at it from a marketing perspective predominantly. And when we're doing branding, it's kind of a compliment to the marketing to make it more effective. But at least when I'm talking about marketing, it's like, we can make sure that every dollar spent is attributable. Like we can tie it to some sort of outcome. When you look at branding, it's like, how are you... not to put yo on the spot, but like, yeah, how do you handle that?
Kaleigh Wiese (07:01)
I mean, this is something I feel like I am active in practice. So something that I believe is as we look to the future, and we're seeing with AI, the design and ideation phase, all of that early phase stuff is happening so much faster. Like the designers and architects who were he newest hotel, that early phase like site study and programming concept and all those things would take eight weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks. Now with technology being in their own hands and the client having technology in their hands, that process is becoming so much smaller. So what I think we're going to begin to see unless we create disruption or the right teams make choices like this partnership is essentially we're to able to build buildings really fast, right? So what is going to be, what, things are getting jumped over? And I think that similar to when we're getting our spam emails now that we're like a robot totally built this, I think there is unfortunately a high probability as you look out there and all these hotels start looking exactly the same, right? Like it is a AI built structure and they'll have their little 3d printers printing the aluminum and the glass and, it will take not much time at all to have that happen.
So what I believe is actually to have a healthy business and to build a building that will matter in the lives of people today and generations from now actually does start with story. How do we want people to feel? And so I think if I can help walk through the process of like, we are talking about that future phase and we're actually taking control over what that space is going to be today. And we're going to appropriately budget for it. And we're going to know what all the moving parts are. And I think what ends up happening is marketing is one of those things that's like the magic piece that really isn't getting as much dialogue in the planning process versus, you know, when I walk into a hotel that is post-open and I'm looking at their P &L or looking at why they're not reaching their audience or occupancy or whatever, a lot of it is like, well, what did you guys budget for marketing?
If you can be thinking about the right things right now, it's going to save headaches and time. And you're going to understand who your audience is. If you can start painting a picture of who is going to be in that space, using that space. How and where and what software are they going to be using in the process and using technology in an incredible way in that way, I think you're going to be able to have really impactful marketing in the future. So to me, I kind of always start with what is that end goal? And then we go back to the foundation to build it.
Doug Logan (09:34)
I think that, especially in the hospitality space, the technology, the marketing, all of that really just needs to stay out of the way because it's an interruption. And the whole intent is to connect with people, the guests, with the community and the properties. And for them to have an experience. I nobody leaves a hotel saying like, gosh, that technology was so great. I love the iPad in the room and blah, blah, blah.
Kaleigh Wiese (09:57)
No, you shouldn't have to think of it. It should be frictionless.
Doug Logan (09:59)
No. Yeah, but I'll remember the meal, I'll remember the bartender, I'll remember the bellhop, whatever it might be, whoever it might be. Those are the things that stick out to me, right? I also remember when every hotel in New York goes to this shift of like, it's not time for AC yet, and I'm like, that's a bad one, know, staying at a nice hotel that's in an old building and they have to switch from heat to air conditioning. And I remember that unfortunately, and it's not a, not a good thing, but yeah, I think I'm hopeful that AI and technology as a whole will enable more human interaction and give more opportunities for human creativity. Cause at a certain point when everything is the same as you were saying, like what's the difference then? The difference is human creativity.
Kaleigh Wiese (10:43)
I've lost track, but I think I had the opportunity to work with over a thousand businesses in my career at this point. And I think that is priceless. In terms of real life circumstances or working with a client and being like, I've seen this pattern before, this is avoidable. And I think that yes, AI can help with that, but it's the reasoning right now, the creative reasoning of understanding all of the micro circumstantial and personality components also. I think that a lot of the owners we work with or development groups or family offices, you're dealing like I'm mostly the therapist, you know, like we have our bi-weekly calls we like to say, what is your rose and what is your thorn? Because those are really helpful things that also are indicators to the health of the business is really understanding like what's feeling heavy or painful for the owner at that time. And I don't think that, you know, those that kind of insight allows us to make changes that are going to again create a healthy business that's also resonant and like it's okay if the rigidity of the timeframe is going to shift for the health and the well-being of the people who are a part of it.
Doug Logan (11:50)
I'm kind of curious on this for your perspective. You mentioned that the brand is way more than what we intend it to be. Right. Like we create an identity and colors and tone of voice guide and messaging and, and website and all these different touch points. But at the end of the day, it gets out there in the wild and the brand really is determined by those that receive it, and advocate for it or advocate against it in some cases. So in your mind, how important is it for that to be something that the company can own the brand and really dial in on that and for it to be unique?
Or is it more important that it's ownable? A question that I will typically ask new customers, new clients would just be like, if you could own one thought in your target customer's mind, what would that thought be? And then just think about the journey it would take to get to that level, right? Of just owning one thought and being associated with that one thought. What are your takes on that in terms of ownership of a brand and the uniqueness of it how important that is?
Kaleigh Wiese (12:55)
I mentioned your brand is what other people say it is. So I think that's so important to have the owners of the businesses really be able to articulate like, what do I want people to say about that? I also think that people do not evaluate their brand messaging in the wild as frequently as they should. Like, we know that this one ad from a marketing lens is hitting really good, right? So in my mind, I'm like, we got one right? We've been fishing and we got one. Who is really resonating with our message and better understanding them and their needs and making sure that we're actually going deeper with those fewer people?
We worked on a very small eight key property last year and the name of the place was Sophie's. The place was a 1906 historic mansion. And we really went deep with like, who is Sophie, right? You're going to know who Sophie is. Like she's barefoot in the kitchen. She might be smoking a cigarette while she's like plating people's food. You know, she's a little haphazard. She collects art from all over the world. Like she loves a dinner party, but doesn't feed people till 10 PM. Like that kind of essence, it creates this personality where it's like we all know a Sophie maybe it reminds us of our great aunt right or whatever that is and I think the more that we can kind of create a soul to places and spaces that people get to go I think that that is going to be felt and repeated. It's going to make people feel like they can take their shoes off they don't have to be perfect they don't have to clean up after themselves you know they can like put on the record or you know light the incense or whatever those things are that is a part of a way of being that I think is the most critical. Now I do think that I've seen many a times where people are like, this is my audience and this is my brand and it's just not sticking. And a lot of times it's cause they've been branding for themselves as opposed to branding for others. I always talk about it as being like dials. It's like, we're doing really well here, Volumes up. It's resonating. Like we got to figure out where the focus is here.
